Namely, it is very difficult … Also, the makeup of stars in the early universe consists more and more of hydrogen which would also follow from a finite universe. You assume that we must have travelled an infinite distance to conclude that we must have travelled an infinite distance. Infinity does not exist, it is a word (much abused sadly) that we use to “describe” the indescribable, “define” the indefinable, and even to “Eff” the ineffable. They say that children are the future. In these scenarios, you can travel forever in a straight line, and you’ll eventually wind up back where you started. To have infinity, we and everything else would have to have crossed a past infinity to get to this point. To call something as finite or infinite, let us think about what is that thing. We hear from scientists who ponder what shape the universe has and whether it is truly infinite. Haven’t astronomers tried to figure this out? I think that whether we consider the “Universe” infinite or finite is dependent on what we define as the Universe. We would see the constant distortions of matter if the laws were different. Also, as has been mentioned in earlier posts, there is a “start” point, so bounded at t=0 therefore finite. But an infinite universe has no size by definition. At the speed of light space/time and time/space become equivalent (1/1 is equal to its inverse, 1/1). And, looking at Autumn Peltier, the future is in good hands. Posted by 2 hours ago. Good, it’s supposed to. That statement is mathematically true (look it up in any decent probability book), but there are many problems in applying that argument to the real world: first, in our universe all possible configurations are NOT equally likely (quantum laws forbid some of them), and second, even if they were, then you still cannot get to that conclusion because zero probability doesn’t imply impossibility (again, look it up). To move 1/4 the distance you have to move 1/8 the distance and so on. In the 1800s, astronomer Heinrich Olbers claimed that the universe couldn’t be anything but finite. Even though the universe came into existence 13.8 billion years ago, we’ve managed to observe up to 46 billion light years. It will go on forever even after God decided the human race is to end. The universe is infinite, AND getting bigger. One of the strongest theories for the geometry of the universe is that it is like a giant expanding balloon. A lot more universe exists beyond what we are able to observe. A rational answer to these questions is that there is something beyond the material universe — a creator, an unlimited being that shares of itself … And if the Universe is finite, well, it’s finite. Our universe is not the universe — there might be others. Assuming a finite universe, the universe can either have an edge or no edge. Space is a part of universe when it is included as the distance between two stars or bodies. Is it inclusive of matter as we know it? Scientists say this is definitely not possible as, in their vision, the universe is isotropic. Is space a part of it? The wider, ... As one commentator has remarked, up to this time the idea of the expansion of the universe “was absolutely beyond comprehension. So, in the spirit of he who smelled it, dealt it. Even if the universe truly were finite, that still wouldn’t mean it has any real boundaries. Weeks and his colleag… In a cubic meter (or yard) of space. So far, astronomers have no idea what the answer is, but they’re working towards it and maybe someday they’ll be able to tell us. In our hu-man words, this means 13.8 billion light-years in all directions, the Universe doesn’t repeat. I like when Fraser posts these kinds of posts. You all seem to be forgetting one principle, the God principle. It is dynamic (unlike the static Aether of old) but non-directional (“non-local”) and cannot be detected by a vector dependent experiment like that of Michelson-Morley. I’m referring to crossing, or perhaps I should have better said passing through, an infinity of time. How can the universe be 93 billion light-years across if it is only 13.8 billion years old? That’s another lovely idea, but it would need gravity to vary with time, which is pretty much doesn’t. If the final Black Hole that wins out over all the rest is as powerful as I suspect it will be. A spherical universe is bound but you can go around it forever (a 3d visible universe bent around in 4d space for example.). However, if ,as scientists tell us, we see evidence of the big bang and inflation every direction we look, then this would be the wrap-around. This theory was famously debunked by Isaac Newton, who made a monumental discovery: gravity. You can't go outside of everything. We do not know what, if anything exists beyond 15 billion light year radius from the epicenter of the Big Bang. But the space that is beyond the farthest stars is not getting counted as part of universe. We can only see those parts from which light has had time to reach us since the beginning of the universe - which means we can (in theory) see a spherical universe with radius of about 47 billion light years. After moments like this, I prefer to douse it in some XKCD, Oatmeal and maybe some candy crush. According to him, the universe is neither expanding nor collapsing, but it’s static, managing to cancel the gravitational effects that Newton had brought up. The problem is that, unlike a spherical universe, a flat one can be infinite — or not. Definitely Finite. There would also be particles with “inverse masses” moving through our reference system at (approximately) the speed of light, and also homogeneous and isotropic. If the universe is finite, what would beyond the edge of the universe be like? We can’t see beyond that because we can’t see past where nothing exist. The further you go, the more duplicates you’ll find. That’s a number so big that you can’t actually write it out with all the pencils in the Universe. None of this is taught in the schools. IS THE UNIVERSE EXPANDING, CAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS INFINITE? Basic science posits that all “physical matter” is finite, the slightest motion in the universe (e.g. Ancient Greeks were the first to start asking questions as they observed the night sky. Does it have an edge? I myself is of the opinion that the universe is “finite” in material (which is already established by science as aforementioned) and in “spatial size,” since I believe the “Origin” of it is outside its “beginning,” and that “Origin” is “holding it in suspension.” I believe that “Origin” is “Metaphysical” (non-physical) and non-temporal (without beginning nor end,) that is Eternal. There’s also a very likely possibility that the universe does have a finite mass, but it folds over itself in a way that makes it with no boundaries. Well, the story starts out with an Austrian mathematician and physicist called Christian Doppler. I don’t get out as much as I used to. You could also follow up statements like that with all kinds of crass shenanigans. Edwin Hubble (famous astronomer) discover that all the galaxies are receeding from us. The current, widely accepted model for cosmology is $\lambda$-CDM.The universe appears (exactly) flat, and for simplicity the universe is infinite. If we are going to discuss boundaries, give some thought to including “Universe boundary in Einstein 1931 same as Lemaître 1927” (the issue was brought up by @weasle, but my response was not published. Science Confirms it: The Clashindarroch Beast is Real! Or does “space” only exist inside the universe, and not beyond? There is no edge of the universe. They were also the first to bring up one of the greatest debates (and disputes) regarding the nature of the universe. This website uses cookies to ensure you get the best experience on our website. The other comments seem to be from scientists, which as an MD, I only pretend to be. Two possiblities exist: either the Universe is finite and has a size, or it’s infinite and goes on forever. Since every object, regardless of mass, is surrounded by gravitational energy, a supposed closure to the universe would be pretty disastrous. If the Universe is truly infinite, if you travel outwards from Earth, eventually you will reach a place where there’s a duplicate cubic meter of space. While we can mathematically manipulate values for space and time, we really do not understand dimensions at a physical level, so it’s probably an unanswerable question at this stage. is “change,” and “change” means that the universe had a “beginning” since it is expanding, hence, it is temporal, hence, it is “finite.”, Now, the problem is science CANNOT figure out if the “spatial size” of the universe is “finite” or “infinite.” It is a logical conundrum. This Universe is huge, lol a relative term, but it is not infinite, just like there are only so many souls. It becomes even more confusing when you think about the universe while also knowing that it keeps expanding. The question of “How big is it?” is like asking “How big is time?”. It’s basically similar to the feeling of walking up to a door and having it distance itself constantly. Tell us in the comments below. On top of that, there is a group of Gods, Jehovah is the one that oversees this part of the universe but the universe is divided into quadrants, there is a God for each with one overseeing all. I was not referring to taking a bus with Zeno for a distance. I acted like nothing happened and immediately got off the elevator. I think all that makes our universe must be limited and if you could go far enough there is probably another universe and many others out there in their own stage of development. My thoughts exactly. The universe may be infinite, but we can only see a finite section of it due to the finite speed of light. Questions like, if the universe is finite what lies beyond? That being said, it’s pretty much impossible for us to ever reach the end of the universe if it does exist. And finding a copy of yourself is just the start of the bananas crazy things you can do in an infinite Universe. If the Universe is truly infinite, well then we get a very interesting outcome; something that I guarantee will break your brain for the entire day. Please, NIMBY! So as I had said before, the universe cannot have a different laws at the local scale, different from that on the large scale. If there was an edge, “beyond” would by definition have to operate with different causal rules (because if it operated by the same causal rules it … That’s an “at least” figure. Either way, bounded or boundless, the universe or redefined universe is infinite. Spaces that have an edge are difficult to treat, both conceptually and mathematically. The view gaining currency now is that “motion” is more fundamental and would make a better metric. expansion, contraction, etc.) Universe is an all inclusive term so if theoretically there is something beyond the universe, that would also be part of the universe. It was only this year that I heard about it. However, because we are, by definition, stuck within the space that makes up our universe and have no way to observe anything outside of it, this ceases to be a question that can be answered scientifically. [Excerpt from Michael Speaks: June 2011] [Oscar] Hey Mikeys =) I would like to know if the Universe is finite or infinite. Wikipedia has a fair explanation (google “observable universe”) but then wanders about in a variety of wild theories. My email address is [email protected]. If we think in terms of three dimensions of distances then it has to be finite but time is not finite and can’t say how but space comes with this 4th dimension. Namely, it is very difficult to state what would happen at the edge of such a universe. Finding the right answers is hard enough. 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One thing that vexes my finite mind is trying to imagine exactly what is meant by the “observable universe” versus the “visible universe”. Time is usually parametric in our equations (even in quantum mechanics), and so physicists are increasingly regarding it as non-fundamental (as Einstein did). Finite. Therefore, it became sort of a common practice to refer to the “observable universe,” that is made of “physical matter,” when speaking of the universe, and that it is “finite.”. If the Big Bang theory (with inflation, of course) is correct and all the matter/energy, both visible and dark, came into being some 13 billion years ago, then it hardly seems that this component could be infinite in size. The “background radiation” would include the whole spectrum, not just the microwave background, but also the X-ray background, which is surprisingly bright and uniform. Genetically, we now know the answers, the …, Virgil Smith was only 13, just barely a teen, when his quick thinking saved 17 lives during the wettest hurricane …, Americans are obsessed with their dogs, for good reason. Join our 836 patrons! [3] [57] [58] Estimates suggest that the whole universe, if finite, must be more than 250 times larger than the observable universe. I hate all the confusion. The easiest way to answer your question, “If the universe is finite, what would beyond of the edge of the universe be like?” would be to distinguish between universe and Cosmos: Universe = finite Cosmos = … Here is a recent historical perspective of the complexity of the subject matter: Here’s how smart they are. Beyond the yellow circle is an even larger (imaginary) one containing 4.7 trillion galaxies, the maximum portion of the Universe that will be accessible to us in the far future. A finite universe has a finite size that can be measured; this would be the case in a closed spherical universe. It can last for an incredibly long time, no pun intended. After many centuries of thought by some of the best minds, humanity has still not arrived at conclusive answers to these questions. My vote? Although as someone who accepts bang/crunch feedback “cycles” I hasten to add that for me, t=0 is not the most recent big bang event. The observable universe spans a 93 billion light-years diameter if we take Earth as a central point of measurement. If the universe is finite, what would beyond the edge of the universe be like? The Universe can expand without there being anything outside it for it to expand into, says science writer and astrophysicist Adam Becker.He explains this mind-bending idea to BBC … Infinity is endless; you’d never get there. Rather, if the universe is finite, it’s most likely ‘edgeless’. Eventually, the growth rate started to diminish and the universe entered a certain status of inertia. Later, Einstein developed the renowned theory of gravity which placed him right in the middle of the typical two perspectives. And we weren’t the first. In other words never get to “here”, as it were. Your argument is similar to Zeno’s Dychotomy Paradox. But still, if the universe is finite, then it probably has an edge and an “outside” — what those things would be like, however, we don’t really know. I hate to make a guess based on : “(A) is the right choice because (B) is too silly” …but in this case, B is too friken silly. Consider this. The universe is not finite. We are INSIDE an Infinite Mind who is also The Creator of Space and Time as we experience it every day. The local behaviors are composed of space/time relations and the non-local behaviors are based on the inverse: time/space relations. The wrap-around does exist. That’s to say its fabric, spacetime, curves back on itself in any of 18-or-so potential shapes, like a donut, or möbius strip. As far as finite versus infinite, the answer to that may be unknowable.. but if the Big Bang happened once, who’s to say it can’t happen again? If the universe is finite, what would beyond the edge of the universe be like? Nice to see so many opinions posted as a result. http://www.facebook.com/octavian.peagu, Simply thinking – if its finite then it has to have a boundary, what is beyond that boundary then. Alternatively, there’s nothing beyond the universe because it’s simply infinite and it molds into itself in a four-dimensional space. Yes the universe is finite, disc like and comparatively flat. In many ways, the possibility of it being infinite or finite posed some great problems alike. Even if there would be a supposed edge, whatever lies beyond it is still considered the universe. This is similar to the surface of earth but with another dimension. If you research this topic, you will find a vast amount of different opinions, and they pretty much revolve around this question: How can the universe have a limit in “spatial size,” and what is beyond that limit?! A 6-year old knows that the Universe and Infinity is beyond human comprehension. . You could measure its size with a really long ruler. The book “Terra non firma Earth” reveals the geology, and “Big Breach Universe” on the android app store takes it to the next level from where the book leaves off. I’ve entangled myself with this question all my life. 6-Year-Old Debuts as Weatherman, Mr. Rogers Documentary is Coming, And We Are Thrilled. Our Daddy, who is also our Creator, our Healer, our protector, and granter of our humble human wisdom and knowledge. The universe is simply expanding. It is made of cardboard. The majority of scientists today believe that our universe is extremely large, but finite. The fact that at “the Edge of the Universe” were found many “adult” galaxies, well formed, instead of young undeveloped galaxies as they were supposed to be in the Early Universe, makes me believe that those galaxies are adult “alien” galaxies from other Universes from vicinity much older than our Universe (that’s why we see those galaxies very well formed), and that is a proof that our Universe is merging with those Giant Universes from vicinity, like Milky Way will merge with Andromeda galaxy in the far future! Modern religion, which is as different from traditional religion as modern science is from the ‘science’ of 500 years ago, now sees ‘God’ as the infinite (obviously incomprehensible) power behind the infinite universe, represented here by periodic Educators who tell us of closer and closer approximations of true Reality. Divine math perhaps does not rely on our computations. —Michael Pick, New York, NY It is a truly awesome concept that the universe is expanding. By default, the term “universe” defines everything. The only place where these could hide from the outward eyes of God is simply inside of him. Stephen Hawking says that this is yet another completely senseless thing to think about. The Universe has what physicists call “local” and “non-local” behaviors. Because we cannot observe space beyond the edge of the observable universe, it is unknown whether the size of the universe in its totality is finite or infinite. The answer to that query is \"probably not.\"One reason involves the \"cosmological principle,\" said Robert McNees, an associate professor of physics at Loyola University Chicago. And although most of them are scratching their heads trying to figure out a reason, most of them find dark energy as the “culprit.” What are we talking ahead? That seemed neat as it gave you the Hubble shift, and made time the odd vector out, and didn’t waste any of the 4D time-space. We, however will never cease to exist because we will transcend to the Infinite Dimension of the Eternal Memory of the Great Mind of HaShem. So the answer to the question “if the universe is finite, what lies beyond” is that there is nothing beyond the universe because the universe represents everything, including things “outside” of it. Is it finite or is it infinite? If the seeds of the Galaxies were created prior to the Big Bang(s) in the Hyperspace then the seeds of our Civilization were created there too…. But there is one area of theory that I’ve come to rely on that may be the most promising yet and that pursuit is within the confines of our own brain matter. Alternatively, there’s nothing beyond the universe because it’s simply infinite and it molds into itself in a four-dimensional space. One form of the question asks, \"Could you go somewhere that you could look 'beyond' the universe,\" the way one might peer beyond a cliff edge or look out a window to see the outside of a building? He argued that an infinite universe would mean that everywhere we’d look, the sky would be filled with stars. Close. Then I will assume that not one bit of matter that was thrown out by the Big Bang will escape it. There is a being whose existence is beyond the present heaven and earth. The space and time units are always changing (progressing) but the RATIO remains constant. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. Even if we agree that the universe is finite and has an edge, what is at the edge is another topic up for debate. He was kind, made friends …. That in my own opinion is infinite. It just goes on forever and ever and ever in all directions. If you think in terms of reincarnation, we are reborn and hopefully advance in our way to becoming saintly. Read ahead. But an infinite universe has no size by definition. Beyond our universe, these might be nothingness and other universes obeyi g their own laws. Therefore, you have to pass an infinite number of points to reach your destination, so you never reach it. The local one is what we see when we look at the stars at night. Infinite is but an excuse for the unknown. We’re still struggling to figure these things out, so let’s struggle together. The skies go dark. [3] [57] [58] Estimates suggest that the whole universe, if finite, must be more than 250 times larger than the observable universe. So is replication a given in an infinite reality, or is the universe infinitely variable so that, wonder of wonders, the ‘Creator’ (a misnomer fashioned by the finite observers, since there has always been matter/’creation’), has infinite variability in the infinite universe. I was just thinking recently that since the universe is expanding, doesn’t that mean new “space” is being “created” all the time?! The other portion is traveling away from us so fast we will never ever in human existent can see it. If you think about it, this is a very strong assumption once you accept the possibility of an infinite number of particles. So, how would you test this idea just by watching the sky? Where does all the “stuff” come from? Why rule out the possibility of infinitely many different types of elementary particles? By simple extrapolation, the Universe, specific and orderly, is a finite image in the mind of God. If the universe is curved, according to the new paper, it curves gently. But wait, if it turns out that the universe IS infinite after all, doesn’t that make this whole expansion thing even more confusing? Is all of this giving you any headaches? why would the universe want to go on forever without definition when that is not the principle operation of its components ? The accelerated expansion rate of the universe is so fast that the universe grows even bigger before light beams travel back to earth. Then it is finite. Is it infinite? I highly doubt that we could or will ever discover the means to get far enough away from it to avoid being swallowed up. Now this said the 'Universe' expanding from the the Big Bang is indeed finite. . They’ve obsessed over it, and ordered up some of the most powerful sensitive space satellites ever built to answer this question.Astronomers have looked deep at the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation, the afterglow of the Big Bang. the speeds of the receeding galaxies could be measured spectroscopically by using the Doppler effect. To begin with, you need the additional hypothesis that *all* matter in such infinite universe is made from a *finite* set of elementary particles. Modern astronomy has been concerned with the inside, outside, and size of the Universe, but has not defined “the box” itself. You could also follow up statements like that with all kinds of crass shenanigans. Something has to start where something ends, right? Our Universe is merely the Energy of a brief Dream [13.5 billion years is a brief time comparing to Eternity] inside the Infinite “I AM”. There’s just no other better way to put it. There is a space known as the “observable universe” which is everything that we’ve managed to explore and observe so far. See I’d say that there are Infinite Dimensions (One Super Dimension of Space) and the Multiverse is a projection of a Hyper-dimension onto a Sub-dimensional space (like a 3D object projects a 2 dimensional shadow and it is easer to get the idea if you understand that a hypercube is for a cube what a cube is for a square). 4 minutes ago. As for what is beyond this finite Universe, that is a question raised by materialists who cannot grasp (it is very difficult to grasp) that beyond this Universe there is neither space nor time. The initial answer to whether the universe is infinite or finite is a resounding… we don’t know. The universe must be infinite. It is finite. It is finite, … Scientists have observed that the universe is doing the exact opposite of slowing its growth rate down – it’s actually accelerating! Sure, it might wrap back on itself in a mindbending shape, like a of monster donut or nerdecahedron, but if our Universe is infinite, all bets are off. If our Universe consists of our Known stars or that which we can see, or what seems to be part of our Big Bang, then it is finite. After the initial explosion, it continued to grow and to expand for a while. If we try to define finite bounds for the “universe”, the very definition of a bound means there is something outside of the boundary, otherwise there would be no boundary. The difference between God and the universe is that God is the creator and the universe was created. The Spectrum of Love … Alan Watts has a nice little video to listen to if you had time broadband and the want. “I AM” is defined as the Ultimate Wisdom and Power or simply as HaShem. Radio signals die. So, what’s out there? Many people think that it does not make sense for the universe to have a limit in “spatial size,” some think it is flat, some think it is spherical, and so on and so forth, but no one knows for sure. Holy Dream will end, disc like and comparatively flat insights, as I used to I see no replication... From a finite distribution yourself as a result as seen from within their own systems. Exist in a region ( causal patch ) of space, I see no perfect replication born. Move a distance see our videos early, special bonus material, and either outcome is mindblenderingly fun talk... Mindblenderingly fun up on the other hand the Cosmos, which we ’ ve been asking questions as they the! Unbounded if it is included as the dark of space and so would as... 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